Curse

Silent Kitty · May 15, 2006, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Yes, cast recall on a support character. Shadowstep in, attack, see if you can kill. When it doesn't work, cast Blackout, and recall. I don't think that there have to be attr. points in Domination, unless you want to cast Backfire instead, and try to stay for the kill. When you have enough energy left, that might be an option. Not many players will expect an assassin to attack with mesmer spells as well.

My lvl 17 noobie assa has:

Domination 6 (Which does 77 damage (With Backfire) every time the caster casts)
Dagger mastery 12
Shadow Arts 5
Critical Strikes 9

Not deadly, but close

Silent Kitty · May 15, 2006, 08:49 PM // 20:49

- oops - Double post.

Phades · May 15, 2006, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by fallot

Warriors yes, not Assassins. You can AoD in, use a dagger combo, blackout, AoD out. It requires minimal attribute investment. You have to wait for chain recharges anyway, so having your skills affected by Blackout isnt so big a deal.

Like i said, specialized builds. A hammer build war can do essentially the same thing with blackout following a k/d chain due to adrenalin being spent completely if the target is still alive. The point was gauging if its worth the investment and downtime following the blackout for the user. This typically isnt the case without a fairly sizeable domination investment, but can be pulled off.

The better question is, what else are you getting out of your domination point investment beyond the blackout, nevermind the mesmer secondary in general.

LightningHell · May 16, 2006, 01:25 AM // 01:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria The Princess

you know a monk is low on energy when he casts nothing but occasional orisons and rare healing breeses.

Who uses healing breeze? >.<

Quote:

Originally Posted by fallot

It works the other way around, its not so bad.

I don't get how that would be the other way around. With Blackout you disable both your skills AND your target's.

Also, factor in Distortion sometime.

Just a caster throwing in random snippets.

fallot · May 16, 2006, 07:49 AM // 07:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightning Hell

I don't get how that would be the other way around. With Blackout you disable both your skills AND your target's.

Like I already said before, AoD in, use your chain, blackout, cancel AoD.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

Like i said, specialized builds.

Only if you think AoD + a dagger combo is specialized.

Phades · May 16, 2006, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by fallot

Only if you think AoD + a dagger combo is specialized.

AoD is not blackout or another other form of shutdown.

fallot · May 17, 2006, 06:22 AM // 06:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

AoD is not blackout or another other form of shutdown.

No, it isnt. Your point ?

First you said that Blackout only had a place in specialized builds for Assassins, I responded by giving you an example of the most common multi-role Assassin build where you could put Blackout and make it work. So what are you responding to ?

I have no idea what you're on about, I wouldn't even have known you were responding to my post unless I saw my name quoted. Nowhere did I imply that AoD is shutdown, only that AoD + a dagger combo is not a specialized build. Therefore, your previous point that Blackout only has a place on specialized builds is false.

Phades · May 18, 2006, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by fallot

No, it isnt. Your point ?

First you said that Blackout only had a place in specialized builds for Assassins, I responded by giving you an example of the most common multi-role Assassin build where you could put Blackout and make it work. So what are you responding to ?

I have no idea what you're on about, I wouldn't even have known you were responding to my post unless I saw my name quoted. Nowhere did I imply that AoD is shutdown, only that AoD + a dagger combo is not a specialized build. Therefore, your previous point that Blackout only has a place on specialized builds is false.

When you blackout and leave combat with the target via canceled AoD, you instantly negate the pressure built up on the target, which is the point initially if the spike fails and requires the use of blackout in the first place.

You are going in a very strange tangent about aod+dagger combo, which has nothing to do with blackout.

fallot · May 18, 2006, 06:40 AM // 06:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

When you blackout and leave combat with the target via canceled AoD, you instantly negate the pressure built up on the target, which is the point initially if the spike fails and requires the use of blackout in the first place.

Negate the pressure built up on the target ? You're going to be teleporting out anyway, unless you like spending time in backlines with 70 armor. But that shouldn't even be discussed, you're not obligated to teleport out, its just an example of a place where Blackout doesn't interfere with an ordinary assassin build. I didn't even say it was good. Just disagreeing with a single point you made where you said that Blackout could only find a place on specialized Assassin builds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

You are going in a very strange tangent about aod+dagger combo, which has nothing to do with blackout.

There is a failure of communication here at some point. I don't know what you're talking about, you don't seem to know what I'm talking about. Strange tangent you say ? How is it strange ? Isn't AoD + a dagger combo an example of a non-specialized build where blackout can be added and made to work ? Isn't that the reply that I should give against your point ? (which I'll quote here):

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

blackout is probably one of the worst skills for wars and assasins to bring outside of overly specialized builds

Like I said before, Blackout on warriors is a bad idea. On Assassins ? Not bad at all, it doesn't even require a high degree of specialization, which I've beaten to death above already.

Bloodied Blade · May 18, 2006, 10:50 AM // 10:50

I've found something rather interesting in PvP... I monk a lot in pvp and find that the generic GPS/Horns/Spider/Fangs combo gets me because I get knocked down and can't combat the degen and conditions fast enough to save myself (if I CoP the assassin just does it again 1-2 seconds later).

SL_Sky · May 18, 2006, 12:08 PM // 12:08

If we're only talking about casters, the obvious Disrupting Stab+Temple Strike +Exhausting Assault does the trick...
You can use Serpents Quickness for faster recharge and Critical Eye+Sharpen Daggers for added damage...
This is HIGHLY specialzed though, and u can't kill anyhing else with it, but it's quite the caster-bane...

(and u still have 2 slots to play with...)

Phades · May 18, 2006, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by fallot

Negate the pressure built up on the target ? You're going to be teleporting out anyway, unless you like spending time in backlines with 70 armor. But that shouldn't even be discussed, you're not obligated to teleport out, its just an example of a place where Blackout doesn't interfere with an ordinary assassin build. I didn't even say it was good. Just disagreeing with a single point you made where you said that Blackout could only find a place on specialized Assassin builds.

You arent creating shutdown over time and you are not creating pressure on the target. It makes no sense to do so, since the target being blacked out has no threat towards your own survival.

The dagger combo doing damage has nothing to do with shutting down the target and everything to do with killing the target. Blackout without continued pressure has nothing to do with killing the target. This is the odd tangent you are going off on. There is no point in blacking out the target if the combo fails at that point as you would already be relying upon someone else to finish your job for you due to the teleporting out. To actually take advantage of the shutdown it provides and work as a shutdown character requires a specialized build for any melee character.

The failure is you are not representing your point in game mechanics, merely attempting to say you can use a gimmic to be relativly safe while your own skill bar is blacked out. This is not the point of blackout, but is the point of AoD. Blacking out the target when you leave doesnt change anything except cause downtime for yourself. In other words, its rather pointless in any situation. If you stayed to kill the target and didnt have blackout that monk would be using his time to heal himself anyway instead of other people he could have been healing that using blackout prevents. Staying or not staying is irrellevant without the proper attribute investment in domination as well, otherwise you still come up short due to the target becoming active again before you are. In which case, you would be better off just using gale for shutdown/control purposes.